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Issue 1039: [Concern] Discrepancy between SimCraft and Rawr in Tier bonuses for fire Mage
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Status:  WontFix
Owner:  ----
Closed:  May 2012

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Reported by, Dec 13, 2011
Please forgive me if this is considered an intrusion of the bug tracker, hence I labelled it a 'concern' since it might not be a software issue or not a software issue with this package.

Take a loot at this report:

It appears that there is a very distinct discrepancy between Rawr and Simcraft on the Mage bonus for fire mage:

If a T12 heroic set is asked to be upgraded to 13, Rawr suggests to be done only if there is at least 1 heroic piece (or at best a full piece). Simcraft appears to be ok even with a 2x piece, or at least the 4x normal piece is considered considerably better.

Which one of the two is correct? Is there a known incomplete status on Simcraft? Or should it be considered a Rawr issue. 

If there is a lack of understanding why the discrepancy, how to we look into figuring it out?

And for an end user, what should he do?
Dec 13, 2011
Project Member #1
I'm very certain that the underlying modelling of Tier13 Set Bonus in SimC for Fire ( not 100% sure about the cooldown reduction for the other two specs, but that's another topic ) is correct.

The 2piece Bonus can be examined in the report, there are also detailed uptimes about each stack. The 50 haste rating per stack is included. The log output might be a bit misleading, but debug output clearly shows that the haste gain works 100% correct.

Combustions expires/cancels Stolen Time in last_tick(), so that too is correct.
50% Proc Chance for Fireball is also implemented.

The 5s CD reduction per stack are also implemented, the 80s intervall for the Tier13H Fire Mage profiles wouldn't be possible without it anyway.

The only thing that currently isn't included in the second-level places of SimC ( in it's defaulty proposed action priority list and on ) is a possible optimization in the action priority list.

It might be better to wait for a certain number of Stolen Time stacks before casting Combustion. Someone would have to figure that out, running multiple simulations with high #iterations to see if there is a significant dps increase. But even if there is it might not be very important in the real world, because catching good dots and treating combustion more like a "proc", a condition where you have to react to might be more important.

In conclusion: I can't see any error in SimC's modelling of the Tier13 Bonus. I guess it's up to Rawr to answer how exactly they implemented it and if there could be errors in their implementation.

Status: Started
Labels: -Type-Defect Type-Review
Dec 14, 2011
Crossposting from Rawr:

OK on the latest version [Of Rawr] the advantage is significant even with 2 of the items on 384, it still gives 2x to be worse than 4x heroic T12 but I suspect that's reasonable.

By the way, the 'cycle level haste proc' feature gave a significant increase in the DPS on the previous version, now it gives nothing. Also, the previous version appears to keep the x4 T12 and it gives a very marginal advantage on the X4 T13

This is the file if still of interest: (it does not include T13 x4 items other than 2 of 397.)

BTW, concerning the ideal way to use Combustion on a Patchwerk, there has been an interesting post lately in EJ, suggesting the the first application can be done on high stacks since the advantage of the x4 bonus will give for 'free' that delay back, if not with an advantage as well.

I suspect for the following applications it won't be an issue on Patchwerk since there is plenty of time to reach optimal stacks.
Dec 14, 2011
On a related note, crit appears incredibly valuable on SimCraft with 2x T13 and 2x12. Haste appears considerably below mastery. Is that normal?
Dec 15, 2011
Project Member #4 swbusche
Normal is relative.


Dec 15, 2011
There's no clarity currently since latest version of Rawr forges crit to modest levels, while Simcraft values stacking of crit quite high. In practical terms, a setup with full on crit stacking may have high or the highest DPS in SimCraft while considerably lower DPS in Rawr. 
May 15, 2012
Project Member #6
Closing old pre-MoP Issues.
Status: WontFix
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