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WhatIsEPGP_v2
EPGP: Effort Points, Gear Points
THIS DOCUMENTATION IS OUTDATEDYOU CAN FIND UP TO DATE DOCUMENTATION HERE. IntroductionEPGP is based on the concept of Effort Points and Gear Points. Effort Points quantify the effort each member put towards the (common) guild goals and Gear Points quantify what each member got back in return. Loot priority is computed as the quotient of the two; priority (PR) is equal to EP/GP. In a sense EPGP is like zero sum, but without all the need to rebalance the system, or impose taxes to give points for other effort put into the guild. Zero sum awards GP/N points to each player for each item dropped (GP the value of the item and N the number of players in the raid) so that the sum of all points for the members of the guild is zero. EPGP on the other hand is by definition self balanced since priority (and hence chance to receive loot) is directly proportional to the effort you put and inversely proportional to the rewards you got. It is also much more flexible than zero sum since it doesn't require a specific balance point (sum to be equal to zero for example). As such points can be awarded for almost anything without any taxation or over complicating the system (see below). Also another problem with zero sum is the random value of each boss. A boss kill is a boss kill and the effort to kill it is the same no matter if it happened to drop 1 or 2 epics. With zero sum since the amount of effort points the members get is proportional to the loot dropped which is definitely not representing fairly the effort each member puts in the guild. EP can be awarded through a multiple activities:
GP points are accounted though some other set of action:
Clearly each guild can choose to use any combination (or even come out with its own point assignment) of the above points. Assignment of points for each activity/action is not something that EPGP tries to solve. This is solely left to the guild management, as it is out of the scope of the core of the system (and is also the case with many popular loot systems). Another twist in EPGP, that makes it different than other loot systems is the fact that EP and GP decay over time. The decay can be set by the guild master (it can also be disabled if it is set to zero). With a decay of N%, after each raid the guild participates in, each member gets her EP and GP reduced by N%. This eliminates EP (DKP) hoarding. Because of the fact that EP decays over time, we can use a simple metric to estimate attendance: Min EPs. Given a value for Min EPs we choose to give PR = 0 to those that have less than Min EPs. As an example, assume a guild where about 500 EPs are awarded per member per raid and a Decay of 10%. If Min EPs is set to 1300 then a member needs to be in at least the last 3 raids to be eligible for loot (500+450+405), or the last 4 raids before the last one 450+405+365+329. This is arguably a better measure than attendance, as attendance is a somewhat loose criterion: if a member came to a raid for 1 hour only and the rest were in it for 4, do they all count as the attended the raid? Since EP measures the effort of each member, having a Min EP puts the cut-off at an effort point which will work both for new members and old members. An old member that is idle for a long time will loose EPs gradually so she might get lower than Min EPs which makes her ineligible for loot. A new member starts with EP equal to zero so he needs to attend some raids in order to get his EP above Min EP to be eligible for loot. Another way to combat people with 0 GP skyrocketing on the PR meters (trials or inactive members that just became active) is with Base GP. With Base GP set to X everyone's effective GP becomes X + Individual GP. Effective GP will never go below X. Using Base GP has a major ramification:
Of course you can use both Min EP and Base GP (or just one of the two). GP ValuesEPGP also adds a tooltip line to items displaying the GP value of the item. The GP value is computed using the item level and the equipping slot of each item as follows: GP = item value2 x 0.04 x slot value Item value is computed using the following:
Slot mod is given by the following table:
Just giving some examples, using the above formula gives the following GP values for the following items (mainly priest items). Chest pieces:
Staves:
As you can see this model of assigning values to items, scales well between rare and epic items alike. In the above list there are blue items that are of better quality than epics and their GP value correctly models this fact. SpecificsEach member starts with EP = 0 and GP = 0. As such PR = 0. As EP are awarded PR goes up and as GP are awarded PR goes down. Let us look at an example. Assume 3 members A, B and C, EP per raid 10, GP per item 10, and DECAY_P = 10. Also assume that member A attends all raids, member B and C only 2 out 3. Here's how EPGP look like before the start of raiding:
In the first raid the all attend, and A and B receive loot:
Notice that the when GP is 0 when computing PR we take it as 1. In the start of the second raid EP and GP will decay by DECAY_P%. The standings will look as follows:
In the second raid all participate so the next to receive loot is C and lets say that B receives loot as well (member B is tied with member A so they roll):
In the beginning of the third raid we decay all EP and GP again. The standings table will look as follows:
Notice that even though A and C attended the same raids and received the same loot A's PR is higher than C's. This is because A received an item earlier than B so that item's value decayed for more time than B's item. Now in the next raid only A participates and receives a piece of loot:
Time for the next raid. The starting table will look as follows:
Everyone participates. Next in line to receive loot are C and A. And they do in which case the final table will look like this:
Up to this point A received 3 pieces of loot, B and C received 2 pieces. Problems/SolutionsEP hoardingThis problem is non-existent in EPGP because of the use of the EP and GP decay. Only temporal EP and GP are accounted. So the latest you "use" your PR lead the least amount of benefit you get out of it. And the earliest you take an item, the faster its value will decay. New members vs VeteransBecause of the decay, new members become equal under the system much faster. EPs decay over time so with a 10% decay in about 15 raids a veteran has about the same EP as a new member (if they both attended the same raids). The only barrier to entry for new members is reaching Min EPs in order to be eligible for loot. Members that are geared up vs members that are notMembers that are geared up already will end up with the highest PR possible and will have first priority over a new (and possibly rare) drop. This will satisfy these members. Members that are not geared up already will end up getting loot in most raids which will keep their priority low. So they will still gear up but they will not threaten members that wait for a special piece to drop in order to get their satisfaction as well. ComplexityUnlike Zero Sum with taxation, which is very similar, there is no need to rebalance when members join/leave guild, and no changes in tax/decay because of more tries on new content. The reduced complexity of the system allows more people to understand it, which keeps the queries to the guild master low and member satisfaction up. Hard to assign item values and boss kill/tries valuesBecause effort points are decoupled from effort points it is easier to assign "good" values for each category. Guild Masters/Officers can focus on balancing different boss kill/tries, materials farming rewards separately from item values. If you notice in the above example nothing would change if each raid was awarding 987 EP and each piece was worth 123 points. Balancing rewards and items is extremely hard; balancing them in isolation is quite simpler. Randomness on boss value in zero sumZero Sum's major flaw is that for the same encounter, you might end up getting more or less points, depending on the loot (which is random). This introduces a major cause of unfairness to the system, since the same boss, which requires the same effort, is worth more in some runs and less in others. In EPGP each boss awards the same EP every time, adding to the fairness of the system. |
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Members that are geared up vs members that are not
contradicts
EP hoarding
How can we change PR from EP / GP to EP - GP ?
we don't want to use PR system this way.
EP - GP will mean that people can hoard and defeats the purpose of the system. Even with decay, the values would just keep rising. It would mean that new members would take muuuuuch longer to get loot.
This system is rigged imo. There's no difference between greed and need. I was ignorant of this and went ahead to greed some items only to realise I got punk'd. Also, items that NOBODY else wants and is about to get disenchanted should cost signifantly less to whoever needs it as it will just be wasted otherwise.
This system is rigged imo. There's no difference between greed and need. I was ignorant of this and went ahead to greed some items only to realise I got punk'd. Also, items that NOBODY else wants and is about to get disenchanted should cost signifantly less to whoever needs it as it will just be wasted otherwise. Just my 2 cents.
Disenchanted items aren't wasted: you need the shards for enchants for guildmembers. Don't greed items. A shard and a usefull enchant is better than an item in your bank.
Hi Evlogimenos,
We've found great success with your mod. One thing we decided on a month or so in was a soft cap on GP. It's slightly different from your base GP system in that the soft cap only exists to calculate the PR of people whose GP is below the soft cap. The soft cap is such that it takes recruits about a week and a half to climb the list, and once players all have taken items, it looks pretty much the same. It can be a pain for members who reach the cap, as their PR starts to decay, but if they're at that point, then they're either at the top of the list anyway, or they're fair weather raiders, and they're about where they should be on the list.
Prodigy86, the system isn't rigged, your MAster Looter is. We charge 10% of the value for secondary items or items that will receive less use (ie: Second set of t4 gloves for a resist set, when everyone in the raid already has the gloves. Instead of 259, we charge 25.)
The glory of this system is you can charge whatever you want, just type it in. Don't knock the system, knock who is running it if they don't have a clue how to =)
Flurie, if you read the discussion group on EPGP, Evlogimenos has programmed in a base GP cap that isn't subject to Decay as normal gear points. It is in beta now, I am sure he will announce and explain how to work it once it is out of beta!
Hi We have been using epgp about a month and still we couldnt decide the EP's for bosses , ontime, DKP's, and decay (per week, per raid, how much?) Evlogimenos Can you advice me? Thx
Well I think one of the advantages of this system is that you don't have to put that much thought into how many points you award, as long as it is somewhat consistent and doesn't change too much over time. The system will work just the same whether you award 1 point per boss or 100 - just the average PR will be different.
As for decay it depends on how quickly you want to drop off old efforts and gear purchases.
Say you choose a rate of 10% then with every decay you lose 10% of your current EP and GP (your PR will not change however), so after 10 decays you have (100%-10%)10 = (1-0.1)10 = 0.35 = 35% of your original points left.
If you decay weekly with these numbers you could take 10 weeks off and still have 35% of your EP and GP - if you decay daily you'd reach that point after 10 days.
So if you decay daily you'll want to pick a lower decay rate than when decaying weekly.
How much decay you choose to have per week is really up to your guild - personally I think 50% per week would be way too much while 1% is too little.
This system needs some decay though as it is quite good as oscillating new members PR around the PR of vets however if two vets have different PRs it takes quite a while for the lower to catch up, say you have
Now let's say the average item costs 100 points, and you earn about 50 per raid. The next item will take C to 200/200 way below A and B, but he can work his way up to the top in 4 raids 400/200. However B needs to attend 1000 raids before being able to catch up with A.
So EP/GP does a good job of allowing new members to be at the top of the food chain for a moment, however without a decent decay vets will have problems getting back to the top.
The later of course is somewhat true for traditional EP-GP systems as well, however when combined with a bidding system you can go from 100,000 pts to 0 with those even without decay and quite fast too.
To me the advantage of this system (EP/GP) is that you a) don't have to put much thought in items costs and effort rewards (a problem with EP-GP)
The downside of EP/GP IMHO is that you don't really have a way of expressing your "need" as you can with a bidding system. Of course you can introduce extra rules like get an item for 10% if nobody else wants it% or start with a 200% cost round, but you can't really take it to the level of a bidding system without defying the purpose of the PR (not to mention the extra time at each "auction" round)
In any case it allows newer members to receive top loot earlier, which may be good or bad depending on your pov.
EPGP is a system you can tailor to your needs. The system itself knows nothing about off-specs, loot for alts or anything of the sort. To cover all those cases you need to adapt it to your guild. For an example of loot rules for our guild you can check out this document:
http://www.aphorism-guild.org/2007/03/loot-system.html
Are we allowed to code it into a website or are their any propriety rights on it?
I am pretty sure you can :-)
Pardon me for being a bit lost on your GP math, but I have been unable to see how you came up with the numbers that you did. For example http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28578. Unless I am mistaken on how I read your formula here is what I came up with, item level = 115, item level requirement is 70. So using either one of those, here is what I came up with. ((115 - 1.3)/ 1.3)^ .04 1 = 305.98
If I use Min. Level requirement I come up with ((70 - 1.3) / 1.3)^ .04 1 = 111.71.
I am sure I missed something along the way, so if anyone could explain what I am missing, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
Indeed it is hard to come up with the right answers if you look at the current ilvls. All epic loot ilvls were boosted in 2.1 if I remember correctly. These computations are for the old ilvls. I am fixing them now.
Is it ok to make adjustments / alterations to some of the code and then use the altered version of the code?
Yes it is gavin. Please ask those questions in the discussion group (epgp-discuss@googlegroups.com. Wiki comments is not the best place to do so.
Is it possible to handle people who are online, but not in the raid group?
Yes. Add/Distribute/Recurring EPs work on the current view you have. There are 3 view options: - Raid (those in raid) - Guild (those in guild including offline) - Online (those in guild and online)
This mod is oh so sexy. It solves the dkp whore problem, the why the fudge nuggets do i have to look up item values every time we kill a boss problem, the attendence problem and is actually kinda fun to use. Roflcopters to anyone who doesn't like it.
how guild members see their epgp or pr list?i´d probed in my guild and we don´t see these values.they only see if they are officers...and we don´t want this... there is a form to explain step by step how implement these FANTASTIC addon and dkp system on a guild?
thx
members list is not actualizated at moment..when i give them ep or gp...their addon not actualice...
The following happened to a raid of my guild. Is this normal? It seems unfair to player A.
Boss Dies. Before awarding 1st boss kill (it was agreed to be a large amount 6000 ep) player A is ahead of player B on RP.
Player A has around 60.000 ep and 900 gp. RP is around 67. Player B (same class) had 11.000 ep and 190 gp. RP therefore is around 57.
Player A was under the impression during the whole raid that he was going to get the loot IF it dropped. (Fact: Player B had quit the guild before, but then decided to rejoin. Since no backup was kept, he effectively RESET his ep,gp and rp)
Before distributing loot, but AFTER killing the boss, the first kill bonus ep is awarded. This is 6.000 ep. I believe EP was so large that it wrecked the formula.
Player A has 60.000+6.000 10%? = 66.000 ep. with 900 gp, i had now 73 rp (9% more of his previous amount = 67rp).
HOWEVER Player B had 11000+6000 than 50% increase in ep?, with 190 gp, he now has 89 rp!!! (36% more). Which is now higher than Player's A. THus, he gets the item.
Asnwers to comments will be on the google group:
http://groups.google.com/group/epgp-discuss
nsakkas, I think it was messed up when you awarded the ep THEN you rolled on the loot. I believe the system is designed to away based upon your RP going into a fight, and award ep after the raid... or after the fight (and loot is distributed)
Yorchpal, you need to set the ranks to allow members to see the officer note and not just the officer rank.
nsakkas, the reason it seems unfair to player A is because it probably is. PR is calculated from EP / GP so when you added on the 6000 EP he went to 17000 / 190 rather than 11000 / 190. The reason this is unfair to player a (from the sounds of it) is that player b left the guild and got a lower gp because of it (when he came back) now im assuming he probably had GP before he left hence he should have been a lot lower Ratio. (IE 700 gp before he left puts him at 890 and 17000/890 is a lot more reasonable than 17000/190.) To prevent from this sort of thing happening simply take the addons special features into use. All you have to do is export the standings to HTML / TXT file Each week (after raids reset etc) and you probably have a lot more luck with the system.
-Dan
I'm trying to find out how to remove EP manually but have had no joy. I don't want to reset everythin, just remove ep from one member. How do I go about this?
Award -10 EP
how would the GP table look with legendaries included?
Check this thread out:
http://groups.google.com/group/epgp-discuss/browse_thread/thread/3810753c78290cc9/7712f0a97f2f1463?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=legendaries#7712f0a97f2f1463
Here are my thoughts...laugh as much as you want. I think that any sort of decay is bad. If you award points fairly and evenly, why would you want to take them away? This penalizes the geared people. Say someone in t5 spends months helping gear a guild by running raids that they will get nothing whatsoever out of save a few badges. You want to take away from that effort? If you bid the gear rather than a set amount the geared people with more points will be able to get upgrades first...as it should be.
shiloh.sharps: Decay applies to both the points your "earned" and the points you "spent". So in effect decay doesn't take away anything. It just decreases the effect of your past accomplishments and gear awards have on your current ability to loot. Why would someone get gear now if she only raided with the guild 6 months ago?
Small hint of advice: It is clear you do not understand the system. I won't laugh at you as you say but I bet a lot of people did already. So to avoid that, try to put the system under a simulation. Write some numbers down on a piece of paper/spreadsheet and see who gets gear and when. Investigate what happens. Once you do that, lets us know if the system sucks or not or if any sort of decay is bad.
Last night, whenever I awarded EP, my EP/GP add-on started asking people to "send a tell containing 'ep' to be awarded standby EP." I'm not sure why this started happening, but it's confusing my raiders.
How do I prevent this from happening?
jcgoodman: You most likely upgraded to the beta. This is feature to facilitate standby EPs. Currently there is no way to disable it, I will add it to a later version. Meanwhile you can downgrade to a stable version.
P.S: This is not the place for EPGP support. The right place for this is the forum: http://groups.google.com/group/epgp-discuss
I am using a DKP system that you can buy items with fixed prices, and the way I award raid will make a player that is off for a week don't receive the dkp equivalent of an item. I don't do any kind of decay, I just made some calculations so that in time, I won't have too much inflation. To be honest you never know for sure if you gonna get inflation or not, as this is based on the way the guild progress. I just can't find how would be more fair. For players that are in guild, is fair the system, but for the players that are new in guild, and didn't get any dkp yet, I believe that the best way to do it is to give them a bit less dkp then the smallest dkp that any player in guild has, as in my case, the equivalent of 3 items. (3x medium price of an item)
I like the simplicity of the EP/GP system, but I don't see how the system ends up being fair to veterans. Basically, since PR uses GP as a divisor, as veterans get higher GP's, they require higher EP's to get their next piece of loot. The only way the system remains balanced and fair is if every raider has nearly the same GP and that's pretty rare for all but hardcore guilds.
For a ridiculous example to illustrate the point, let's assume the following points for three players. From this point onward, they all attend all raids so decay is irrelevant.
Assuming a simplistic 500 EP per raid and 250 GP per loot, after the next raid, we have:
So for the same amount of work (500 EP), A got 0.02 PR, B got 0.2 PR, and C got 2 PR. Since the rate at which you accrue PR is the speed at which you acquire loot, C has a huge advantage here. ... Let's continue and assign loot for the next raid:
Even after giving C the next loot item, his PR is still much larger than A's and B's. In fact, if loot drops the next two raids, C will get both making it three in a row! How is that fair? A, B, and C all did the same work, but C is getting loot faster simply because he has a smaller GP.
The ideal situation for any DKP system is having the same group of people make all raids. In this case, loot is essentially given out in a round-robin-ish fashion with the only variable being which loot items dropped. If you had such a group for one year and then replaced one member with a new recruit, that round-robin-ish method is destroyed while the new recruit gets all of the loot until his GP catches up.
So do I misunderstand something about EP/GP or is this simply a fundamental deficiency that everyone is willing to live with?
You really misunderstand EPGP. Your examples are also borderline silly. 25000 vs 250 GP means the former person has recently received 100x more loot than the latter. There are only 15 slots on a character sheet. Assuming the Recruit in this scenario received 1 epic the Master received 100 epics. That's quite far fetched :-)
Also the "problem" you explain is offset by BaseGP. BaseGP adds some BaseGP to everyone. So say add 20k GP to everyone in your example above and see how it works. You have to also take account decay as well since everyone's numbers will be decayed every week (or raid) by some %. In the examples above if you are decaying 10% per week, the numbers are impossible. Recruit C raided once and got 500 EP. How did Master A got to 50k EP since his total EP decays about 5k per week but he receives 500 EP per raid?
Take any DKP system and put stupid numbers in. Normal DKP. Master A has 1 million DKPs. Recruit C gets 1 point per raiding day. Items cost 200 points each. Recruit C will never get loot. Well ok but is the example realistic? :-) Ofc not. As with any program/system/mathematical equation: garbage in, garbage out.
My suggestion is to try EPGP out in your guild as a side dkp. Keep doing your DKP system, whatever that is and do EPGP on the side. Assign some EP and give out GPs to people that receive gear. Then after a month or two, when loot is up for grabs check what EPGP says on who should have received that loot and what your system says. Which one do you think is the most fair of the two?
This is the real test for comparing DKP systems. Of course instead of doing two DKP systems for 2 months you can also do a simulation but that requires some programming.
Yeah, I agree that the example numbers I gave are ridiculous. I didn't sanitize the numbers because I was just using them to illustrate a point.
My point is that because PR uses GP as a divisor, the higher your GP the less PR you obtain for the same EP. This is an inevitable fact of the EP/GP implementation.
Your reply nicely pointed out that BaseGP is used to help mitigate abuse of this. The fact that BaseGP exists confirms my suspicion. The question now becomes how impactful is the problem in a real system with BaseGP and decay?
To figure things out, I crafted up a spreadsheet loosely based on running the Rift in Lotro. I coded up fifteen weeks of full clears and, as expected, the loot distribution was ideal. However, when I started replacing raiders, I noticed that balance was solely based on what BaseGP I gave each new raider. Make BaseGP too low and new raiders get loot too quickly. Make BaseGP too high and veteran raiders get gear while the replacement waits to build up a correspondingly large EP. In a real life system where you have no control over who attends which raid, I'm not sure there is a viable method to produce a fair and balanced BaseGP...
While figuring out what BaseGP to use, I then started returning the old, replaced raiders into the lineup. As an example, let's use a raider that attends all raids for a month, then stops raiding for 3 months, and then returns for another month of raids. In the 3 month break, his GP decayed quite a bit, so when he returns, his GP is much lower than BaseGP. With a GP lower than the BaseGP we'd give a new raider, the returning toon will earn loot faster than he should until his numbers catch up. In essence, the decay that is very necessary to control the system also corrupts it.
After all of this, the conclusion I came to is that the flaws in the EP/GP system are directly tied to the attendance patterns of your raid group. The more repeat customers you have, the better the system will perform. If you have disparate mix of casual raiders that come and go often, then I think this system would only work with a laid back guild that is not concerned about who got what item in what order.
Trying out the numbers in extreme cases is a good idea to iron out bugs or show problems with a system. Trying out numbers that have absolutely no relation to reality, is a guaranteed fail. Imagine starting a physics problem with: "The speed of car A is 10100". Does it really matter under what laws you analyze the problem or what you state after? Of course not because you numbers are bogus in the first place.
"GP lower than BaseGP": With a BaseGP you can't have GP that is lower than BaseGP. The whole idea of BaseGP is that it adds to the current GP of each members. So the effective GP of each member is BaseGP + current GP. Current GP can decay to 0 but BaseGP doesn't change. So the member in the example you give will end up with BaseGP. So after his period of inactivity he will be treated by the loot system as a new recruit, which is exactly how you want him to be treated (or at least this is how I would).
Before you make conclusions about how bad or good this system is, it is worth understanding it first. It is true that the information in the documentation about BaseGP is rather scarce but there are quite a few posts on the discussion group with examples, that explain it in detail.
Also you talk about replacing raiders. Did the ones on standby receive points? If they didn't then maybe there is a flaw in your award policy not the system itself. The system doesn't say if you should or should not give EP to people if they are on standby, that's a policy you will come up with and it affects how loot is going to be distributed. As a matter of fact the same policy affects how any loot system will assign loot.
P.S: For discussions please use the discussion group. This is really not the place for it. http://groups.google.com/group/epgp-discuss
Hi! On russian realms not work any operations with alts. When I fill OficersNotes? fields with main chars niks (exactly as game-niks) EPGP cant shows alts in guild or raid list even when I switch "Show Alts" checkbox. And EP or GP NOT recuring for alts. When I clear OfficersNote? all alts appear again. I never use that addon before, so I have "clear" installation. I`m using epgp-4.0-beta-7. Please, help. Very nice addon but...without possibilities work with alts it becomes unuseful...:(
Most of the issues you name are about new members uptaining loot, but if you decide that players need a minimum ep before they can receive their first item (so while their gp is still 0 and their pr and rise pretty high). This way you can control the activity required for the first item. However, once they have received the item they will drop down on pr and so the whole issue of new members uptaining items disappears. I find it actually kinda nice, you can think you deserve items more than a new member but in fact he could use it as much as you and you accepted him in the guild to stay? so denying him loot just because you were there longer is silly. The new player uptains an item pretty fast, is happy and thus doesnt care he drops down in pr because of it, cause he got an item without human prejudice.
EP/GP is about gearing a guild not individuals.
Here are a few rules we've worked into our system over the past few months that have made our system work very nicely:
1. Initial GP: new members receive an initial GP (for us, it's 400). One of our problems was that once we decided a new member was eligible for loot (usually after 1-2 weeks of raiding), their priority would always be #1 since they have no GP. Sometimes this meant that they were above a veteran member who hadn't received loot in over a month. Having a minimum EP didn't solve this problem, but adding in an initial GP fixed it.
2. Minimum GP: we have a weekly decay, but we set a minimum of 200 GP that it can never decay below. With a % decay, priority never changes since EP and GP both get reduced by the same %. If people stop showing up, though, their GP will stop decaying but EP will keep dropping which eventually drops their priority. Also, the lower your GP is, the faster your priority will rise (i.e. the points from a raid will raise your priority more than it raises someone with high GP). This prevents the decay from causing some members to shoot up too fast.
4. Weekly Decay: we use a decay, but do it on a weekly basis. That allows time for people to dispute things or ask for changes to be made before the calculations. it's always a bitch going back to change stuff after you've decayed all the values. we raid mon-wed and i usually do the decay over the weekend.
Also, at higher levels of gear (BT/Hyjal/Sunwell), I'm finding a bit of a problem with how the item weights work. At first glance, it looks fine in that a chest/leg/helm will give much more in terms of stats than bracers or an off-hand. But really what's important is the actual stat upgrade from old chest to new chest, old shoulder to new shoulder, old bracer to new bracer, etc.
With the modifiers how they are, I don't really think that a standard chest upgrade (say T5 to T6) is worth roughly double the points as a bracer upgrade (again, let's say badge to iLvl 141). I'm a holy paladin, so I'll use some of those items as an example:
Badge Bracer (iLvl 128) -> Hyjal Bracer (iLvl 141) +8 Spell Power +21 Spell Crit -7 MP5
T5 Chest (iLvl 133) -> T6 Chest (iLvl 146) +14 Spell Power +11 MP5
This example is not representative of all upgrades like this, but it makes the point that chest stats >>> bracer stats, but the change in stats from old to new chest aren't necessarily THAT much greater than the change in stats form old to new bracers. My basic point is that I think there does need to be some separation in item weights. I just think that these are a bit out of line. I think that the same item seperation could be used, just don't make the reductions so much.
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